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Rivals Roundtable: Thoughts on college stars back in high school

Baker Mayfield
Baker Mayfield (USA TODAY Sports Images)

Today's Rivals Roundtable asks the analysts to look back on what they thought of some of the biggest college football stars as high school prospects.

RIVALS ROUNDTABLE: ACC vs. SEC | Impact freshmen

1. Which player receiving preseason All-American hype would you never have guessed to achieve this status based on what you saw in high school?

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Orlando Brown
Orlando Brown (USA TODAY Sports Images)

Rob Cassidy (Southeast/Florida): I didn’t rank Oklahoma State’s James Washington, but I don’t remember him being discussed as a major prospect. We had him ranked as a 5.5 three-star, so his inclusion on the Sporting News’ All-American list is certainly not something many of us saw coming.

Mike Farrell (National): I’ll go with Baker Mayfield because I think his story is amazing. His evaluation, at least by me, was on film and he was impressive at times but a bit sawed off, his arm strength was average and he made some mistakes that gunslingers tend to make trying to do too much. When he turned down some offers to enroll at Texas Tech, I thought it was a great fit because he could get the ball out quick and a spread was perfect for him, but never did I expect we’d be talking about him as a Heisman candidate at Oklahoma all these years later. He’s become one of my favorite players to watch.

Adam Gorney (National/West Coast): I've been surprised that Oklahoma offensive tackle Orlando Brown has had such a successful career and could be one of the players at his position drafted after seeing him in high school. He was 6-foot-7 and 340 pounds in high school - huge, yes - but he struggled moving his feet, didn't do well against edge rushers and just seemed like someone who didn't have the athleticism to compete at the highest level. He ended up as a high three-star and I was comfortable with that ranking. But Brown has really excelled in Norman, he's become a tough run blocker and to his credit really emerged as a top offensive tackle in this class.

Josh Helmholdt (Midwest): Desmond King was put up as the poster boy for two-stars who made it big in high school even though he was not rated as a three-star here or everywhere else. Current Iowa linebacker Josey Jewell is the true two-star poster boy. Even the Hawkeyes did not offer him until right before National Signing Day, and his only other offers were from FCS programs.

Nick Krueger (Texas): The guy that has been brought up a bunch in this category is Arden Key. I was with Rivals in Atlanta at the time he was in high school, and he was a skinny defensive end that could get a decent pass rush at times, but was too lean and a little timid. Now, he’s one of the premier pass-rushers in college football and even though he’s still had some weird stuff happen off the field, nobody has any questions about him since. I had only ever seen Jalen Hurts once in person at the Rivals Camp Series event in Dallas before going on to cover the state myself, but I wouldn’t have guessed based on his performance at that camp that he would have been so successful so fast, either.

Chad Simmons (Southeast): Orlando Brown moved to Georgia before his junior year from Maryland and he was out of shape. He was a big young man with great bloodlines (father was NFL OL Orlando Brown) and people recognized his ability very early. He had offers early in his high school career, but after getting up over 400 pounds and not showing great development, his recruitment really slowed down. Brown originally committed to Tennessee, then the Vols really slowed their recruitment down and he ended up at Oklahoma. Once he got settled into Norman, Brown really changed things. He was starting his freshman year, he was in great shape last fall and he has put himself to be now be on preseason All-America teams and NFL draft board. This is a great story because he went through a tough time losing his father early in his high school career, he got down, but he has bounced back, put in the work and has really outplayed his ranking.

Woody Wommack (Southeast): This one is easy for me, it's Oklahoma offensive lineman Orlando Brown. Early in his career Brown had all the offers, but it seemed like every time we saw him against quality competition he struggled, whether it was in a camp setting or in games. I think most of us on the Rivals staff expected him to be an average player at best in college, but after getting in shape he's tapped into the potential that plenty of college coaches saw when they extended early offers and now he looks like a future high NFL draft pick.

2. Which current college star did you advocate for back in high school when others weren't so sold on him?

Allen Lazard
Allen Lazard (USA TODAY Sports Images)

Rob Cassidy (Southeast/Florida): Texas A&M wide receiver Christian Kirk. I lived 20 minutes away from his high school when he was coming up and beat the drum for roughly a year with regards to his five-star status. Most were worried about his size until the final rankings meetings, when a contented vote barely edged him into the five-star club.

Mike Farrell (National): Harold Landry out of North Carolina and at Boston College was a kid I saw something out of that many others didn’t. I remember watching defensive film of Lamont Gaillard, his high school teammate, who a couple other sites had ranked as a five-star and this rush end kept making play after play. I asked his coach about him, turned out it was Landry and after scouting him again a couple times I felt he was a four-star talent. He has played like a five-star.

Adam Gorney (National/West Coast): I remember seeing Cameron Smith for the first time in high school when he was a sophomore in the state championship game and absolutely being blown away by his physical play, tackling ability and production. I immediately thought he was a kid with five-star potential and he's really developed well at USC. But camp season came along and Smith had to cover running backs and receivers 40 yards downfield and he didn't look great in the open field. However, I knew it was something he would never have to do in a real game. I wish I would have advocated even more to move him higher because he's been excellent at USC and has NFL written all over him.

Josh Helmholdt (Midwest): I fought to keep Allen Lazard in the top 50 of the Rivals100 throughout his prep career and got some pushback there. Going into his final season in Ames, Lazard is getting preseason All-American talk and has already produced at a very high level for a Cyclones program that has been otherwise very poor.

Nick Krueger (Texas): I wasn’t an analyst at the time, but the running joke among the national analysts is the ‘success’ that Virginia had recruiting locally only to find many of those layers didn’t live up to their rankings. One guy that I saw at numerous events and loved his style of play in that group, however, was safety Quin Blanding. Yes, he finished as a five-star prospect, but after seeing what became of guys such as Tiquan Mizzell, Andrew Brown and Derrick Green, seeing him succeed has been nice.

Chad Simmons (Southeast): It wasn't that others were not sold on Arden Key, but I think I was just a little more confident in him panning out on the college level. He had transferred high schools, there was a lot of talk that he would not qualify, he was a two-time South Carolina commit, but ended up signing with LSU and numerous colleges stopped recruiting those last few months. There were some red flags, but his talent was crystal clear. With his great size, length and closing speed on the edge, he showed the ability to be the premier pass rusher he has become in his first two seasons in Baton Rouge. If he stays healthy, he is likely a first-round pick in the 2018 NFL Draft after playing three seasons in the SEC.

Woody Wommack (Southeast): When Boston College defensive lineman Harold Landry was coming out of high school, I was doing the rankings in North Carolina and he was one of my favorite players in the state that year. While most recruiting services were drooling over his teammate, Lamont Gaillard, Landry was the Pine Forest defensive lineman I liked the most. He's had a stellar career at Boston College and made me look pretty smart for ranking him as high as I did.

3. Which current college player did you advocate for back in HS that is running out of time to prove you right?

Da'Shawn Hand
Da'Shawn Hand (USA TODAY Sports Images)

Rob Cassidy (Southeast/Florida): Houston QB Kyle Allen, a Texas A&M transfer, is going to have to show a lot in his new home if he’s to live up to his five-star ranking. Rightly or wrongly, I still believe in him, but it seems unlikely that he’ll become the first-round pick I though he’d be.

Mike Farrell (National): Well take your pick, Byron Cowart of Da’Shawn Hand. It’s probably Hand because we had many analysts who wanted Myles Garrett in that No. 1 spot and it was a close battle down to the end to keep Hand at No. 1. He has the potential but his recent DUI arrest doesn’t help and he needs a perfect season and first-round grade to live up to his potential.

Adam Gorney (National/West Coast): Blake Barnett started at Alabama last season and I thought he had a chance to be really special in the Crimson Tide offense - even though I thought Oregon or Notre Dame fit him better coming out of high school. He has a quirky release and that was a concern but his athleticism was off the charts and I thought he had special leadership qualities. But then he quickly transferred out of 'Bama when it was clear Jalen Hurts was going to be the starter and now he's in a heated battle with Manny Wilkins to start at Arizona State. He ended up being the second-best dual-threat QB in his class with Brandon Wimbush, Jarrett Stidham and Sam Darnold behind him. Obviously, that was a mistake. Barnett still has time but he needs to get it going now.

Josh Helmholdt (Midwest): We were higher than most of the other rankings out there for Mikale Wilbon in the 2014 class, ranking him as a Rivals250 prospect. He has shown flashes of that potential in three seasons for Nebraska, but only has 24 carries and six receptions in his career. He needs to establish himself as the guy for the Cornhuskers in fall camp this month or risk getting passed up permanently by younger backs.

Nick Krueger (Texas): Two guys that I enjoyed watching in high school and agreed with their respective No. 1 rankings were Da’Shawn Hand and Byron Cowart. Hand has 44 career total tackles through three seasons and Cowart has 12 in two seasons played. Hand was as physically impressive of a prospect that I have seen as a defensive lineman in my time at Rivals, and Cowart looked and played like a superhero himself. Now, Cowart has sized up to the point that he’s too big to play defensive end and is looking as though he’ll be a defensive tackle this season. Both guys need breakout seasons this year to salvage - or begin to salvage - their NFL Draft potential.

Chad Simmons (Southeast): Racean Thomas was a running back out of Oxford (Ala.) that I saw live in some fashion about a dozen times throughout his high school career. I was sold. He signed with Auburn in 2014, and after two seasons, he transferred to Jacksonville State. At Auburn, he rushed for 475 yards and three touchdowns. The ability is there. He is an explosive back and maybe the change of scenery will help rejuvenate his career. We have seen other running backs go from top 100 prospect to prospect to a back-up to a transfer, then to emerge as an NFL draft pick a few years later, so I will continue to track Thomas this fall.

Woody Wommack (Southeast): I imagine a lot of us will have the same answer on this one, as former No. 1 overall recruit Byron Cowart has struggled to live up to his ranking at Auburn. He's moved positions several times, is going into this third year with the Tigers and faces pretty tough competition to get on the field thanks to Auburn's success recruiting the position in recent years.

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